Paphiopedilum (Shin-Yi's Pride x Saint Swithin)

Week 22: Aug 17, 2020

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Paphiopedilum Shin-Yi's Pride

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Paphiopedilum Saint Swithin 'Black Rook'

This week I would like to present new Paphiopedilum cross - Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride x Paph. Saint Swithin (unregistered).

Paph. Saint Swithin (philippinense x rothschildianum) is one of the oldest Paphiopedilum primary hybrids, registered by RHS in 1901! And probably one of the most awarded Paphiopedilum - over 280 awards!

Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride (Michael Koopowitz x rothschildianum) is relatively new hybrid registered by Ching Hua in 2001 (I can’t believe that it was registered exactly 100 years after Paph. Saint Swithin). We have 38 awards total including other countries like Taiwan.

New cross combines 3 important species: Paph. rothschildianum, Paph. philippinense and Paph. sanderianum!


Our candidate has 3 flowers and 1 bud on one inflorescence. Stem Length - 58 cm, not staked.

Color comes from Paph. Saint Swithin 'Black Rook'.


Flower Measurements:

NS H - 21.2 cm; NS V - 26.4 cm;

Dorsal Sep. W - 4.6 cm; Dorsal Sep. L - 5.3 cm;

Petal W - 1.4 cm; Petals L - 22.0 cm;

Lip/Pouch W - 2.2 cm; Lip/Pouch L - 3.6 cm.

Judges' Comments

Jean Ikeson

Color: nice contrasting color on the petals; dorsal sepal has some bleeding of the color into the background, which distracts from clear contrast; pouch: the photos appear to show some overlay of color over the 'yellow' background, which also gives it a bit of a muddy appearance, good clones of either parent have clearer color.

Form: presumably the breeder was hoping for longer twisted petals, but in this cultivar, they are perhaps just a bit longer than rothschildianum and most of the twisted form from philippinense and sanderianum has unfortunately been lost; margins on the dorsal appear to roll a bit, probably from sanderianum--and that species has narrowed the dorsal sepal width as well; form of the synsepal could be smoother--in the photo, it distracts from the pouch.

Floriferousness: flower per stem as expected

Stem: good

Summary: this particular cultivar does not appear to be an improvement over the parents. Paph sanderianum is a tricky parent from which to get improvement or long petals on the whole. Given that the standard for quality is so high in the species and hybrids in this pedigree and the bit of muddiness that appears in the photo in the dorsal and the pouch, I would be reluctant to award this cultivar.

Jean Allen-Ikeson



Al Messina

This plant has a double dose of roth with three other major species represented in its genome. I don't believe it is an improvement on any of its progenitors and, therefore would not consider a nomination, especially since, with so many awards to each parent, the standard is quite high.

Thanks for allowing me to participate.



Trevor Yee

Attributes I find appealing are the strong dark colouration of the striation of the dorsal lower half leading to clean lines towards the top. Similar colouration of the petal ends compliment the dorsal colours. Nice strong stem carrying the 4 flowers.

However, the pertinent flower (Pic 2) for closer consideration shows the dorsal and synsepal edges to be wavy – I would submit this is not desirable. In addition, the petals are not displayed in a uniform way – hence causing the flower to not be symmetrical, though the shape of the dorsal and sepal are nicely balanced.

3 open flowers are below average – we can’t tell if the 4th bud will also be of similar size and shape/colour. A 6-growth plant should be able to bear more than 4 good flowers.

I cannot recommend it for a quality award.

Christian Carrillo

Morning. 🙂


This flower definitely interest me.


This flower has many wonderful attributes but two factors would probably keep me from pointing it higher than the HCC range, or a very low AM (very low).


The first is the dorsal color. Yes, it's dark but the color has no definition at the base and it looks like a splotch. With today's standards, I would like to see a lot let botch and more definition in the primary and secondary stripes. While this color is from the Saint Swithin parent, it is a characteristic that I personally do not prefer in this modern line of breeding. This is not an anitum hybrid.


Second is that I would like the petals to be a little wider. While 1.4 is a good size, the petals that are wider throughout its upper half would make for a more harmonious presentation. I would also expect wider petals to hold themselves better, with even broader shoulders. I also don't find the petals held in the same plane where they connect to the center of the flower -- one tends to have more of a boarder/shoulder appearance than the other (this can just be photo angles of course).


Yet, I could see it in person and be smacked with an 84 pointer, but I doubt it.


Christian



Carrie Buchman

Looking at the metrics of the parents, this cross is right in line in terms of flowers/inflorescence; and its NS is within range of awards to the parents and a bit bigger than the geometric mean. It is a clean well grown plant. Recognizing that these are less than idea photographs, it appears that the petals twist in opposite directions and at difference distances resulting in an unappealing lack of symmetry. Petals are little narrow as compared to the awarded parents and lack the symmetry and aesthetic appeal of the parents in their stance. I would pass on this plant.

Kind Regards,

Carrie Buchman


Dave Sorokowsky

Hi Sergey.


While the color of this flower is excellent, I would not score it.


The petals have too much asymmetry and 4 flowers is not enough for a multifloral hybrid that is 50% roth and 37% philippinense. I expect 5 to 6 from a roth and 6 from modern philippinense. We need to raise the bar for flower count on multiflorals and stop awarding plants with 3 or 4 flowers.


If someone nominated this I would score it 74.


Dave




Ed Weber


I find Shin-Yi's Pride to be a fascinating window into the genetics of orchids. Taking a paph with long, twisted petals and putting it on a paph with virtually horizontal petals you wind up with something exactly in between the two in a most pleasing way. With 38 awards from all over the world under its belt the bar is set pretty high.


Then you take perhaps the most frequently awarded paph, one with crazy-high standards, and toss that in the mix and what you are looking at is a real crap shoot. It's hard to imagine what the breeder was going for with this cross. Perhaps they hoped that putting a highly awarded cross onto a highly awarded cross would produce highly awardable offspring? I'm not a geneticist so I really don't know. I would like to ask the breeder if they are happy with the outcome, though... just for my own education.


Is this cross an improvement on either of the parents? I don't honestly believe that it is. While it DID inherit some of the good traits from each parent, I feel that the overall result is not "special", which is where we are now in paph breeding. The color is good. But the petals are asymmetrically folded which is distracting to me.


Another thought is to floriferousness. Saint Swithin can easily hold 7 flowers on an inflorescence. Shin-Yi's Pride can do 5 or 6. Four flowers on our candidate seems on the low side. I'd be much happier with one or 2 more flowers. I also think that with better staking the specimen plant would have a significantly better presentation thus raising my assessment.


I took about 10 low to mid-range AMs and calculated the averages. Our candidate is at or slightly above the average in all dimensions. So while there IS a slight improvement, the question becomes: Does this flower raise the bar in any significant way? Again, I do not think it does. Without the "Wow!" factor to encourage me, I do not think I would nominate this candidate for an award at this time.




Mark Werther

Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride

What I first reference is St. Swithin and Rothschild. A standard has been developed over the

years for 4 or more flowers. There are some examples with higher flower counts.

First, I think this comes down to the numbers. If there were the full complement of four flowers

this might be a closer decision. Although three flowers have been previously awarded, these

plants have been bred and rebred for close to twenty years and I would be expecting four

flowers in visible view as a minimum for evaluation. I can only see two flowers in a visual plane

and second, they are separated more vertically than I would prefer which does not help its

cause.

What I find fascinating is that the sanderianum disappeared in twisting, except in petal length.

Third, when the philippinense is used, I like to see the clarity of a yellow pouch against dark

dorsal and petals and these flowers do not have my expected contrast expression. The other

choice is a consistent darker flower and these have not reached that intensity. Fourth is a

negative from the reflexing on the sides of the dorsals


Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride

What I first reference is St. Swithin and Rothschild. A standard has been developed over the years for 4 or more flowers. There are some examples with higher flower counts.


First, I think this comes down to the numbers. If there were the full complement of four flowers this might be a closer decision. Although three flowers have been previously awarded, these plants have been bred and rebred for close to twenty years and I would be expecting four flowers in visible view as a minimum for evaluation. I can only see two flowers in a visual plane and second, they are separated more vertically than I would prefer which does not help its cause.


What I find fascinating is that the sanderianum disappeared in twisting, except in petal length.

Third, when the philippinense is used, I like to see the clarity of a yellow pouch against dark dorsal and petals and these flowers do not have my expected contrast expression. The other choice is a consistent darker flower and these have not reached that intensity. Fourth is a negative from the reflexing on the sides of the dorsals.


Deb Bodei

Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride x Paph. Saint Swithin

Observations and Commentary

Plant is well grown and I like the way the blooms are spaced on the inflorescence so you can see each bloom. I do think the inflorescence should have been staked for a better presentation. The photos seem to be taken with the plant tilted back to avoid the blooms facing downward which it seems they would be doing on their own.

Both parents of this cross are highly awarded so we are looking for blooms and culture that must meet high standards. Would have liked to have seen at least four blooms instead of three and one bud.

The flower is not symmetrical in the close up with the staminode twisted. I cannot tell if all blooms are not symmetrical. The petals seem to be hanging a little limply and not evenly twisted but that could be from the plant being tilted backwards for the photo. I do like the upright dorsal and width is nice. Petal width is good.

I like the color of the pouch and the reddish mahogany in the petals and sepals and the contrast of the yellow in the pouch. However, the stripes in the dorsal are not even and consistent and I am not sure how I feel about the synsepal lacking in markings. The dorsal striping is not crisp and clear.

Recommendation

This blooming has not convinced me that this cross is necessarily an improvement on its famous parents. I wouldn’t nominate it for this flowering.


Sergey Skoropad

Paphiopedilum (Shin-Yi’s Pride x Saint Swithin).

This is interesting cross and represents next generation of breeding multifloral paphiopedilums.

This cross combines two very highly awardable crosses.

Three flowers and one bud - I believe that flower count is low for this type of multifloral (philippinense, rothschildianum and sanderianum can produce 5 to 6 flowers and we can see it on recent Saint Swithin awards!).

Presentation of the flowers is not the best: I can see only two flowers from each side.

Color is great, I love dorsal - very dark color (both parents normally have striped dorsal but this one looks like anitum add some color).

Petals little narrow compared to the parents. They looks more like philippinense hybrid but lost charm of sanderianum hybrids.

I will pass on nominations this time, I believe that this plant doesn’t show improvement over the parents (maybe Paph. Shin-Yi’s Pride already reached the top!?).

Thanks

Sergey

Exhibitor - Tim Culbertson, CA (Accredited Judge, Pacific South Judging Center)